Last time, we discussed Leadership Skills – Why It is Critical to Your Success. This week, we
continue the discussion with what are leadership skills and how are they different when you are a individual contributor vs a team leader.
Again, I am joined here by our Executive Author – Jaime Lapena who shares his thoughts along with mine to help you with leadership skills.
Listen to this 18 min audio podcast and let us know what you think. Stay tuned for next week’s final part of this podcast – How to develop leadership skills.
Your comments: We look forward to your questions and comments below
Audio Transcription
Lei: Well this is actually a great segue to the second part of this topic, so what are leadership skills? How should we…when we say, “You’ve got to develop leadership skills.” What are we asking others to demonstrate in their…what are the qualities do you think the company is looking for in a leader?
Jaime: I think that there are a few. One is being a thought leader and being able to convey those thoughts clearly and communicate, which is the second piece, the communication piece. I think leading from the front is a very big thing to me.
Having the trust of the people that work for you and feeling like they can try and if they don’t succeed fully or succeed, but they’re trusted to try again to succeed. And understanding how to, as much as you can, set them up for success. I don’t know if that’s necessarily a skill or not, but I think it’s important when people are leading.
Lei: Absolutely it is.
Jaime: I know that I look up to people who do that. I looked up to a couple of my bosses that were…you knew you weren’t going to get thrown under the bus; they were leading from the front.
Lei: And they were protecting your…
Jaime: And they would, you know…of course you have to earn that trust, but they weren’t in it for themselves in that way. Like I felt very comfortable, in fact I felt very much the opposite, like I didn’t do enough for them.
And I feel like that is a quality that you want from people working for you, because they always want to strive to do more. Not selfishly, but because they want to do what is right for the group and the company itself, the business.
Lei: So how about this? Let’s separate a little bit because we talked about the fact that every level needs leadership skills. So let’s talk about what does leadership skill look like for an individual contributor? And then let’s separately talk about what does leadership look like when you are the leader of a team.
Because that seems different, right? For an individual contributor, I think that you already said a couple of things, but one…a couple things. First is thought leadership.
Jaime: Right.
Lei: Regardless the fact whether you lead a team or not, you need to have original thought because you are bringing a certain level of expertise and you probably know your job the best and the leaders who manage you are actually relying on you to maybe even disagree with them if you have good logical reasons. I think some people mistakenly think, “Oh, I need to say yes to my boss because my boss must know more.”
Actually that’s not true. It’s not about saying no all the time, but it’s about having a healthy discussion because you are hired for your knowledge for your thought process and for your leadership. So if you see something that is decided that you have data against, you should speak up.
And be not afraid to speak up is actually a really important quality in an individual contributor, in addition to having…which is kind of what you said about communication skills. Being able to have an original thought, being able to communicate those thoughts in a professional way…it’s not about making people look good or bad…it’s really about helping the business.
And lastly, I think you talked a little bit about it in terms of dedication or passion. You have a certain passion towards the work, so that you are…
Jaime: I think you cause an improvement.
Lei: Yeah, you’re not doing the job because you’re paid, because someone is making you. You’re doing it because you care and that is what leading yourself means.
Jaime: That’s more the values and principles of a person, right? In my opinion it’s that.
Lei: Yeah. And a lot of managers, myself included, when I see someone who really takes ownership of things and care, then I listen. I will actually give them the benefit of the doubt because I know they’re trying.
Jaime: Well you built that trust.
Lei: I know they’re trying and nobody is perfect, managers or individual contributors. So it is okay to make those mistakes. But like you said, as an individual contributor, you’ve got to earn that trust first so that you show that you know what you’re trying to do, you show that you have that dedication.
But then you have that original thought, be able to speak up, help your entire team be better is your job. And that’s where you’ll stand out, compared to someone that is maybe saying, “Yes.”
Jaime: And I always thought a piece of advice that I thought was valuable was when someone said, “Run it like you own it.” I mean like it’s literally your business, what would you do for this business?
Lei: I actually say that to my team because my team would say, “Hey, here’s what’s going on, what should we do?”
Jaime: You might have been the one that told me it.
Lei: And instead of me telling them what they should do, I ask them because I said, “I respect where you’re coming from, I respect the knowledge that you have, that I don’t.” So, if you put your own money in this business, what would you decide to do if you had a 100% of the authority?
And then they tell me and that’s what I love about it, because sometimes they tell me things that I don’t actually agree with. But I’m like, “Oh, I should listen because I didn’t know this part.” And so it makes the entire team better when everyone is voicing.
Jaime: Yeah. And I think what people need to keep in mind also is that having a vigorous conversation, meaning having a debate back and forth, doesn’t mean you’re wrong. It just means you’re bantering and proving your point and it’s just a point for point discussion.
Lei: You’re thinking it through with you team.
Jaime: And it’s not a bad thing and if it doesn’t land the way you think it should land, I mean sometimes it’ll happen, sometimes it won’t. You pick your battles, so called.
Lei: Per say.
Jaime: Yeah. And you move on. But if it’s best for the business, that’s the lens it should always go through, right? I think where things start getting hazy is when we have our own political motives or agendas or when it starts looking through that. And something someone had said about Elon Musk that I thought was interesting was that, for some reason he lost that ability to be influenced by that type of thing long ago.
He just gets down to the basics of it and he goes by what they call first principle thinking. And it’s getting down to the basics of something, even if someone says that’s not possible, he breaks the problem down into a very raw, simplistic…
Lei: Smallest decisions, right?
Jaime: …the smallest and fundamental pieces, right? To the point where he says, “Well, if all of this looks like, from our calculations, it’s supposed to work…
Lei: Let’s go with it.
Jaime: Well, there’s probably a high probability that it will work. And that was how they formed scaling their battery, the manufacturing of their batteries for Tesla. Because originally I think they were partnering with someone to buy the batteries and it was costing too much.
Lei: So I think you’re saying two different things. One, is you’re saying that if you’re a leader and you are listening to different opinions…you, at the end of the day, still have to make that call. You’ve got to make that call based on what, maybe say your first principle…what information is available at the time.
Because there’s going to be lots of people worrying about things that may or may not be true. I mean you can never prove, at the end of the day…Jeff Bezel said this…you’ve got to make a decision with 60% of the information. Because otherwise it’s too late.
Jaime: And what I’ve found is that leadership is hard. And what I find is one of the…it’s about making tough decisions sometimes. That’s what I think will separate the leader from just someone who is barking orders or something, right?
Lei: Exactly. And I think the other point you made or maybe you implicitly made this point, is if you’re an individual contributor, you also need to know when to let your leader make the decision. There’s a point where it’s almost stubbornness or lack of perceptiveness if you actually keep drilling your point and not listening to the larger context.
Sometimes a lot…and I’ve done this before, where being young and being very like, “I know my stuff, I know my things, it’s wrong, it’s wrong, it’s wrong.” Well, maybe you only see a sliver of the context and so you contribute that sliver, but when actually your leader shares a larger context, listen. Because sometimes you may not have a choice and the direction has already been set.
You’ve got to learn the balance of when to contribute, sort of your thoughts and then when it’s like…the decision is made. Now the next thing is to go and not to keep fighting the decision that’s already been made. And being a leader in an individual situation actually means sometimes accepting and following that decision.
Jaime: Yeah and I mean even Steve Jobs in the early…in his early days when he was leading, he would push and push and push, to the point where if he didn’t get his way, he’d cry in meetings apparently.
Lei: Oh wow.
Jaime: I mean that was in, written in a biography…I’m like, “Wow.” But there was a story, they interviewed this guy, I think his name is Jony Ive who was the guy who designed the original, what was the Mac with colors. And he told a story, it’s a video on YouTube, I think you can look it up.
And he basically…I might not get this all right, but the spirit of it was interesting to me when Jony Ivy goes to Steve Jobs and says, “Hey, that feedback you gave my people was particularly harsh. Can we do something about making it softer or like delivering it in a better way?”
And Steve Jobs replied to him, and Jony Ive distinctly said, “I was mad at first, but when he said that, after I thought about it, he was absolutely right.” He turned to Jony Ive and he said, “I’m disappointed in you.” And Jony Ive was confused. And Jobs goes, “You just want people to like you. I would have thought that you would have put the work first.”
Lei: Interesting.
Jaime: And I was completely blown away by that story.
Lei: Interesting.
Jaime: And Jony Ive said, “You know what? After I looked at it, he was absolutely right.” And I think as Steve Jobs got more mature and older, even though some of the things he said were harsh, which was incredibly harsh at times…it was very…it, was bad, right? Supposedly. But there were nuggets of how he looked at the world and management that you had to see there was some genius in that.
Lei: That’s a great story, that’s a great story. That’s a great Segway to also now…we’re talking about leaders now, of people, of organizations. What leadership skills…because there is no perfect leader. There’s actually a very interesting nugget to what you just said, which is that leaders are not there to be liked. That is not your primary job.
Jaime: That’s why it’s tough to be a leader.
Lei: You are there to provide the vision, the inspiration and the support for your people to get to a certain outcome.
Jaime: And also you’re there to make certain decisions and sometimes those decisions are very hard things to make. There are some hard calls you have to make.
Lei: Actually, I would say most of the calls are hard, because in business it’s never black and white. Coming from an engineering background where you code…either it compiles and runs or it doesn’t. And so it seems a lot more black and white.
But in business, there’s never perfect information. You’re never going to get enough information to make the right decision. You’re never going to know what your competition is doing, what your customer will truly do when you launch a product.
So you’ve got to go somewhat with your gut, but you also have to give up the need to know all the information before you make the decision.
Jaime: Most definitely.
Lei: And a lot of times your different teams will have different feedback for you and you could be making their unpopular decision, but it is based on your experience as a leader. And because you’re that leader, you’re not only…I would say, making the call, but you’re also…if you’re a good leader, you’re also the person that stands behind that call.
Jaime: And defends it.
Lei: And defends it. So if shit comes a certain way, pardon my language, but if something goes wrong, you don’t go, “Oh, it’s that person.”
Jaime: So I was going to bring that up because then it becomes also the next level of that if it doesn’t go right, are you that person that starts pointing fingers at other people? Because then, I think there’s a…
Lei: (unclear)
Jaime: Well also just by nature there would be a degradation of people’s respect in how you actually…their perception of you. Which will alter the way they respond to you?
Lei: Absolutely.
Jaime: Whether it’s subtly or it’s very much directly.
Lei: I always…it’s interesting…I’ve had a various amount of bosses and leaders in my career. I think the best thing I’ve ever learned is that as a leader, you give the credit always to your team when there are victories. When there are problems, you stand in front of your entire team and make sure you understand you are ultimately accountable, regardless of what happened by the team.
And that actually not only is a model to say to your team, but you’ve got to live by it because that’s what provides the safety for your team to try stuff and make mistakes and dare to say things because it’s a safer environment for them.
They know that you’re in front of that and that you’re going to watch their (???) if anything happens. You’re supposed to have the most experience to help have a team work together and motivate toward something, branding for example.
Jaime: Well when I started my career, I absolutely had no idea what leadership was. Like I literally had no idea what it was, I thought just get numbers in. Crush your number and that will lead the way. I found out that was not.
Lei: It’s like if you build it, they will come?
Jaime: Correct and it was not…it definitely did not lead to the outcome I thought it would. And after I saw a pattern of that, I had to turn and look at myself and say, “Something is not going right here.” And what I realized is a lot of what the blog is about and the advice that’s given is things that I didn’t even know existed.
And when you don’t know they exist, there’s no way of realizing that it has an impact, right? And I believe there’s a million of me, or more, out there. There’s got to be, there’s no way. Because I’m an average guy that went to an average school, although I love my school, I loved who I was there with.
We didn’t think…there were a few people that did think in terms of being…you could tell that their personalities…they were going to be leaders. But the vast majority of us were going to be workers. And I’m saying that because it’s very common, just in the United States alone, most of the schools are teaching them to work, right? And teaching them to go into your field of study.
Lei: And work for someone.
Jaime: Correct. And there’s nothing wrong with that, trust me.
Lei: The majority of people are workers.
Jaime: I am, I was. There were a few things that I got lucky for me. I met key people, one being you that actually coached me. And then the other thing was I picked the industry that was growing and I just happened to study something, on my own by the way, outside of school. I learned this all outside of school.
And it actually…I realized that, “Okay, there’s more to this than just showing up to your job and working on what you’re working on. It really is trying to contribute to the greater picture of it and actually helping your boss. Make it easier for him by owning the piece complete and outright. And that’s where I’m tying all of this back in, is…once I realized that…things just got a lot clearer.
Lei: What you’re saying is there’s a lot of focus on hard sales, even in school. And it’s easy to think, “Oh, if I deliver the numbers, if I do my job, if I turn it in on time…I should just be online to go to the next level. But, a lot of what’s not discussed are these soft skills, starting with leadership skills where there are some things extra that is not…nobody can dictate to you how you can be a leader in your role.
But the leaders that do demonstrate that they have something extra, beyond what is told to them to do are the ones that will advance, that will also have more control over their careers.
Jaime: I think they’ll just have a better chance at advancing.
Lei: Absolutely, absolutely.